I am learning that people simply do not care

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The reality is setting in that people simply do not care about making the world a better place. It is breaking my heart, and I do not know how to reconcile my thoughts. I’m sorry to be such a downer here but I don’t know where else to share.

Perhaps the climate catastrophe, human suffering, and inequality is so large and so much out of people’s hands that even people who care have come to a state of learned helplessness. However, there are things within people’s control that doesn’t change. At work, I listen to a coworker frustrated about a simple problem. It would be a simple change to make this person’s job much less painful, but he “just works here”. It’s just such a dumb problem to waste hours of someone’s life on. To a certain extent, I can’t blame him, because a lot of people just work to survive.

I want to make the world a better place. A world where people have all there basic needs met, live in balance with nature, and have a right to self determination. A world where humanity strives to be the best version of itself. I can’t help but get sad or frustrated when I see something wrong. I can’t help but feel like I’m a downer to my friends when I point these things out. They don’t disagree with me, but it just seems like a depressing topic. People seem generally content to live their normal lives. In the same way, I can’t blame them. It won’t build a better future, but they deserve to be happy.

Maybe my coworkers are right, and that I’m too naïve. Maybe my friends are right, and that I’m too empathetic for my own good. I am envious that they can turn off the thing in their head that worries, or wants to make things better, and that they can just enjoy life. A more utopian future is generations away, or maybe never. If I can’t effect change, maybe I should find an outlet, or stop caring, or something. idk, sorry for yapping. if you’re reading this i hope you have a good day

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Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I know there are many people feeling similar. And I have some thoughts that help me not to give up hope.
1. change doesn’t come fast, it’s growing slowly under the actions small or big of people who want it.
2. there are likeminded people in the world. We are not the majority but we are not alone
3. there is no alternative to aim for a better, healthier world. Even if it looks dark, giving up is not an option
4. go on your own pace. Small steps can make the difference. Don’t expect major changes. Revolutions happen once in 100 years, even less I guess.
5. find at least one or two friends or comrades who share your values. Join a union or a political movement, try to engage and find your place.

This is great advice! It took me a couple of decades and I’m still struggling sometimes, but this is the way. It is a burden and a privilege to recognize a deep-seated social or environmental problem because you can now spend the rest of your life telling people about it and get hit with ignorance, apathy or some sort of bullshit bingo. It will crush you if you don’t find strategies to deal with that. The post I’m replying to lists exactly the strategies I would recommend as well. It’s not easy because it’s (too) slow and not as sexy as calling for a revolution. But I’d say it’s the only way. Lead by example.

Well … and sabotage. You should definitely blow up some pipelines.

It is a burden and a privilege

You explained the burden part, but forgot to explain why it’s also a privilege.

It’s like everyone is in the fog of lost souls from Legend of Korra, and we’re the ones that can see through it. When you have a working brain, you can make the right choices. You can guarantee your life is meaningful, because you’re not blindly using random dice rolls to determine that - you’re using your brain to make choices based on the meaningful information available to you. This makes every day deeply different for us.

I’m outnumbered by people who can kill me any time, but they can’t make it mean anything, or stop me from doing so, because I’m the one with an actual mental model of the world to make choices from.

I think the crux of the issue is that positive change is slow, but negative change can sweep through and more than remove those gains at what seems to be a moment’s notice.

For the longest time, I could have written out these thoughts of yours almost verbatim myself. I hear you, and I believe I know that pain very well.

I’ve recently clawed my way out of that mindset, mostly. A total, unrelated stranger on the Internet now suggests you try the same, for your own mental health and The Greater Good™ alike. I’ll share my own story instead of preaching to the choir, with the faint hope of giving faint hope that there at least exists a way out of this mental mess you’re in.

I was almost afraid of being thought of as naïve, considered it a weakness to not show. Cynicism was my shield. Nevertheless I always went and still go out of my way to be a “good guy”, in the most inconsequential ways. Don’t picture the ranting, vitriolic uncle here nobody wants to be with in the same room, I kept this negativity pretty much to myself and only let it out in controlled drips of sarcastic jokes. I, too, was convinced that humanity surely is doomed, if only for it’s insufferable ignorance, and by extension do whatever I can to support those precious few who I deemed as “not lost” in all the ways I could.
Voluntary extinction of humans seemed like a pretty swell concept, overall.

I did organize convention security of Eurofurence for more than a decade, going from ~150 to thousands of attendees. All staff are unpaid volunteers. I just recently realized how the “staff side” of the convention is a practical, well-working example of a practically anarchistic collective organisation (yes, security, too) managing a metric shit-ton of complex stuff just for a few thousand fellow furry queers to have fun for a week, and paying €1000+ and PTO for the privilege to boot. You may rightly assume I have seen a fair shit of crazy stuff, first hand, but violence, hate, or even just ignorance? I can count those on one paw, over all these years combined. Even trouble with “outsiders” in Berlin Mitte clashing with the colorful crowd was very limited and ultimately civil.

It took me this long to reflect how this personal experience is NOT a glitch in the Matrix, but actually the “resting state” of human consciousness. People are, in an exceeding majority, “good”. I cannot ignore a decade of first-hand (anecdotal, granted) experience and further tell the lie of “people are ignorant, assholes, or both”. They are not. People are however, broken. Like me. Possibly, like you. By “truths” about “reality as it is”, colported by profiteers of misery or other broken souls trying to dilute their pain by finding, nay, creating company to normalize their struggle and feel a tiny bit better. Not out of spite or hate, mind you, but to soothe themselves and survive in a world that is perceived as harsh, uncaring, and downright belligerent. Which it is, for many out there. But it is not “the world” we are up against— the hedgehogs dozing off in the pile of autumn leaves didn’t raise your rent last week. Neither did your neighbor, or the Mexican lady three cities over making ends meet. Why can’t “they” see that and do something? Likely the same reason why I can’t do a lot of things, I lack the energy. Instead of being on the streets or organizing a local repair cafe, I’m typing a stream of consciousness into the void on the Internet. Whoop-de-doh! I’m such a revolutionary! Welp, there’s the sarcasm again. :)

If you’re wondering how to pay for your damn food, shelter, and medicine tomorrow all day, every day, you literally cannot concern yourself with a long-term solution. You are eternally stuck in stopping the bleeding, and cannot focus on the guy stabbing you over and over again. It is too late, you’d bleed out if you shift focus now.

“You keep them dumb, I’ll keep them poor.” said the King to the Pope. And then propagandize this status quo as the only way to survive, with no alternative, and your survival is constantly at risk from… well… whatever threat we can conjure up.

So. If one agrees, at least roughly, with this (gesticulated wildly) being our shared reality, we have also established that people are, by a large margin, victims in need of help, but afraid to ask for it. This is why I follow the guideline of unconditionally offering help in whatever way I can.

There is no shortage of need for any kind of assistance or help in the world. It’s a seller’s market for positivity and aid out there, and it’s up to you to set the price as low as you can.

No effort in that direction is ever “wasted”, as some want you to believe. For every beneficial action you take, no matter how tiny, is a SHITLOAD of eager and needing recipients. Plucking the candy wrapper from the ground? Pointless, right? Surely inconsequential. Not when scaled up by the thousands. Smile at people, just because you are going to interact with them, and set the vibe. It’s ridiculous how many people are visibly starved for a sliver of positive, human interaction, particularly in retail jobs, for obvious reasons.

Once I began actively looking for the effects of my “inconsequential” actions, I realized that the opposite is true. The act of giving freely, unconditionally, and convincingly is the only way to reach those in need who are convinced they don’t deserve anything, or nothing would help them, anyway. It’s difficult to target aid, hence the ’obvious” pointlessness of it all, but an indiscriminate shotgun approach definitely, eventually hits some of the good people, you just won’t notice it right away. For them, however, any bit of empowerment is very real and sorely needed. Do not underestimate the power of decentralized action, it isn’t limited to Lemmy. :)

If you stop anyone’s bleeding for a moment, they may muster up the energy and focus one day, to give the stabby guy a little push. And take a figurative breather, for the first time in years. And then use that new-found strength to maybe, eventually, throw a punch.

I decided to be a part of that avalanche, from my very privileged position, instead of betraying myself and what I desire to be, in order to feel “normal” and be part of a “normal society” that doesn’t actually exist in the callous form so many claim it to “just be”. Fuck ‘em if someone considers me naïve for believing in the possibility of creating a net positive with my life, even if we’re on a doomed ride into oblivion. At least enjoy the view, then, you’ve got nothing to lose but your prejudice.

Okay, I’m done, this is getting ridiculous.

TL;DR: Don’t give up, so many more people are “good”, every action has consequences, even if unseen.

Thank you, kind stranger

This is the most wise and valuable comment I can remember seeing on the internet 👍

I want to go over it again when I’m less tired and perhaps even write a version of it for my blog. Let me know how best I can credit you if I do.

The online ‘space’ seriously needs more of this.

I’m honored if my ramblings inspired or entertained you!

A link back to this post and comment section would be great, to provide context. Apart from that, please feel free to edit the incoherent wall of text as you see fit, in good faith. Maybe DM me a link to your blog post if you get to it, I’d be interested in your take!

Will do! 🙏

Let us all know once you release it

Yes, I will make a post :)

Helluva good post. Thanks for sharing your thoughts here.

The only person you can control is yourself. Do what you know needs to be done, set the examples for others, but place no value on whether they see you or not. The effect of your actions will be apparent.

This reminds me of a line from the novel Popco by Scarlet Thomas: “Do what can, then stop.”

I repeat this to myself when I feel overwhelmed with the scope of a task, or when I start to let “perfect” become enemy of “good”.

For example, if you feel like you should stop eating meat but find that difficult for whatever reason, don’t throw your hands up. Do what you can, then stop. Maybe that means eating meat a few times a week instead of every day.

It applies to politics as well. I know plenty of people who refuse to engage at all because they don’t feel like it’s possible to do “enough”. Do what you can, then stop. Maybe that means spending fifteen minutes before voting day to find the least odious candidate you can vote for. Maybe it means phone banking or joining a campaign. Maybe it means running for office. Or maybe it just means talking to some friends about issues that matter to them.

Or maybe you’re trying to lose weight. I think we’ve all seen people try and fail because there seems to be no middle ground between giving up and letting it dictate your entire life. Do what you can, then stop. Maybe that just means drinking more water and less of anything else.

Don’t beat yourself up just because you can’t fix the whole world.

For example, if you feel like you should stop eating meat but find that difficult for whatever reason, don’t throw your hands up. Do what you can, then stop. Maybe that means eating meat a few times a week instead of every day.

Agreed wholeheartedly. I’ve cut back on my meat consumption a fair bit over the last several years. I doubt I can ever go fully vegetarian, but I’ve come to enjoy lots of different kinds of veggie burgers and miscellaneous vegan alternatives. I remember being wowed a few years back when I first tried some vegan “cheese” made from fermented coconut. I dislike coconut in general, but somehow they made a really convincing, gooey cheese from it that didn’t taste or feel like regular coconut at all. Blew my mind. Goes great on a black bean burger or a veggie wrap.

Unless you own a media empire.

The despair you feel toward the average person’s lack of interest or outright dismissal of these very real problems is unfortunately common. As others have said, the magnitude of the problems we face is often paralyzing. How to begin addressing these massive problems was a question asked by a mother to Noam Chomsky in 1992, and I think his answer still holds up quite well. One of his big points is that it’s pretty much impossible to tackle any of this alone, you need a group to brainstorm ideas on how to solve things and not feel so helpless as a single individual surrounded by a sea of uncaring people.

In a way, this community, slrpnk.net, and even the fediverse as a whole is acting as a place for people to come together and know that they’re not entirely alone, though finding a group in real life who shares your values would allow you to really start enacting change, even if on a small scale.

I think a lot of it is people are struggling to just survive. Barely making ends meet, putting food on their own table and a roof over their head. There are probably many people that wish they could do more, but don’t have the time or resources to do anything more.

I wouldn’t necessarily say people don’t care. I don’t think they have the capacity to care. I think there’s so much going on in their lives and right in front of their faces that they can’t even see what’s happening.

That doesn’t make the solution any better though…

Well, there is also an aspect of cognitive dissonance involved that makes people ignore or reject certain notions if they feel helpless about them.

A valid point. People are complex. Sometimes I just wanna shout at people but that won’t help anyone.

Reminder. 2/3rds of the Internet is bots or paid people in other countries.

I’m not saying this to make you feel better. I’m telling you because it’s true.

Trust your conversations with real people in real life.

Don’t assume the discord online reflects real people’s beliefs.

Go to protests and talk to people.

There are more good people than bad in the world.

You do what you can. Doing something, no matter how small, is better than doing nothing.

You do what you can, and no more. Don’t burn yourself out or work yourself into an early grave. Show compassion to yourself.

Ally with people who share your concerns. It’s easier to get things done as a group, and you’ll have support that way. You keep talking to people who don’t care, and that’s ruining your morale. Find people who do care.

To all the people who feel the same as OP… this person got the key for ya

Find people who do care

I think specifics help so:

Donate time to food not bombs
Donate blood/marrow with red cross
Donate money to doctors without borders
Tell everyone you know about it (it’s not bragging no matter what they say)

Tell me to stfu and you go find your own thing to contribute to

All those people will happily connect you with more you can do locally, even if it’s just going to an event and participating and maybe bring a friend. Bonus, the food is usually bangin

People do care. But there are a lot of people. Not everyone does.

When one does things, you end up with other people who do things. Won’t be your neighbor, won’t be your colleagues (unless you do the Good Thing™ professionally) so do not waste time trying to convince them.

Do your own thing. Life is short and there are billions of people out there. Spend it on the millions that want change, that’s a big enough crowd.

This isn’t new.

The realisation as you go through life that things just aren’t as good as they should be is hard. The more you learn, the more you are exposed. What is new, perhaps, is that the scale of bullshit is bigger and the spread of it more actively pushed than before.

How to cope? Damned if I know. I just try to shut it out as much as possible.

(BTW, your colleague may just be exhausted with change, or demoralised or depressed themselves. It’s hard not to judge people when you see the answer so clearly, but it’s a trueism that everyone walks their own path and you just don’t know what’s going on in their life)

A lot of people don’t know they are supposed to make the world better. A lot know but don’t know how to. Still others know but don’t have the capacity left after just surviving. But there is a significant subset who knows and don’t care, they just chase more dollarbucks.

I’d argue they don’t care because they aren’t issued the resources necessary to care. Our workers also don’t have enough time / energy to parent or to engage in their civic duties of working out what is in their best interests and voting accordingly. Let alone the impetus to imagine a better world and strive for it.

It’s difficult to say if this was intentional all along, or just a happy(?) accident of overworking our labor force out of sheer greed,¹ but it belies the drift of abusive systems towards greater dysfunction, which is why we need ironclad protections against labor abuse.

Not that we’re going to get it necessarily without blood…or with blood for that matter. It’s why violent revolution is on the table since the masses can’t afford the time and energy to conduct non-violent protest.

I’d credit our oppressors for being thorough, but they really aren’t all that bright, so I no longer give them the benefit of the doubt.

¹ We now have studies that show a well-treated labor force is worth the extra expense, from sheer productivity increase alone. Our upper management is just too short-sighted, too divisionist and too paranoid to bother to make their companies worth putting the effort in for, even though optimizing for profit is their job description.

I think of it as situational, in your orbit, you have coworkers wasting time on simple problems. In other parts of the world, in remote villages, solar is changing people’s lives for the better.

I have known too many people lost in their own bubbles of reality, never considering the larger picture and impacts of personal choices. They are the majority, unfortunately.

Just focus on what you can do for yourself, find like minded people to share on larger efforts, and don’t waste your own time and energy (especially emotional) on people that never put in a second thought into efforts for improving the world.

Unless you are working at a cooperative, people are getting paid for their hours not for their labor. You absolutely should not improve things at work in any way unless you can get value out of it, because doing so feeds capitalism at the expense of everything else. Capitalism is a game where each side tries to get the maximum value out of the time. The capitalist wins when they maximize the value of your time, the worker wins when they maximize the amount of money they get for the minimum effort.

Some people are overwhelmed, some people are just trying to survive. A lot of people see that any effort they put in making things better, like at work, will just be turned against them to make the world worse. It’s really hopeless sometimes. A lot of time there just isn’t any space in people’s lives to even think outside survival.

But don’t confuse masking for happiness. People are angry and depressed. Very very few people are happy with the world the way it is. A lot of folks have just given up. People telling you that you should give up only want to feel better about their own failure, their own acquiescence to the void. Trauma does this to people. It traps people. It makes people give up. It makes people feel hopeless. It makes people uncreative. It makes it hard for people to believe in the possibility of hope.

Your work is probably not the place to focus on improving things, unless you’re either working in a cooperative or you’re organizing a union.

Personally, I think we’re all thinking about this whole thing wrong. Capitalism is a death cult. But in spite of that, we have hope. We have faith that we can create a better world, and we have evidence that is true. The world we live in is full of zero-sum games, games that pit us against each other. When we can turn these games into non-zero-sum games, games of cooperation, we can change everything. Capitalist labor markets are zero-sum because whoever wins it’s always at the expense of the other player (spoiler, the game is rigged for capitalists to win almost all the time).

The choice to cooperate or compete is similar to the prisoner’s dilemma. There is a clear optimal strategy for a single game of the prisoner’s dilemma: betray your opponent. But things get interesting when you play multiple times. Iterated prisoners dilemma (that is, playing the game multiple times while knowing all the previous moves) flips that strategy, making the optimal strategy one of guarded cooperation.

The secret here is that you need to have other people. At a high enough density, cooperation defeats competition. The better news is that you are here. From this core, we can support each other in building this world. We can continue to support bringing hope into the world.

There’s a book called Change: How to Make Big Things Happen. It’s about how movements happen. At first they are invisible, or small. But at a certain point they cascade and move very quickly. I’d recommend reading this book to think about how everything changes. I’d also focus locally. The thing that snaps people out of this hopelessness is actually just seeing what is possible. Make something that seems impossible happen. Start small, and build from there. What solar punk thing can you make real?

Can you start a tool library? What about even just a media library among friends? What’s the smallest thing you could do to bring a bit of the solar punk world you want into the current dystopia? Do one thing to prove it’s possible, then see what becomes possible next.

@hex_m_hell Just been ghosting along on this thread, but this toot is one I really needed to read just right now.

One of my favorite and best teacher was a biology teacher, and I remember being taught about population cycles of various living things. I like how that teacher showed us humanity’s population trends, and how it resembles boom and bust species. It was subtle, as if they knew it wouldn’t stick with many of the students.

I think most people can see the rat race they are in, but for whatever various reasons, cannot or will not notice the incoming cliff fall. But, some of us stand taller, and can see the cliff fall coming. Stopping in the middle of humanity’s stampede to warn everyone is going to be met with all sorts of problems, like being left behind, or being berated for slowing others down, or even violence if you create too much impact that impedes the flow of humanity. It’s really awful to deal with seeing a horrible thing happening, care about it, and are not able to make a difference to obvert a tragedy you see coming.

To me, it takes almost no effort to just think the correct way, to voice the correct thing in pertinent moments. It’s the holding of the tongue that takes effort when you realise the ears in the moment won’t listen. You can learn about people quickly by saying some off hand comments and seeing their reaction. Most of the time, people are oblivious or react negatively hearing about the cliff. Pardon my French: Most people only care about themselves and their own shits, sometimes so much that they actively shove their heads up their own asses, purposely so they cannot see anything else other than their own shit. Sometimes you might find someone aligning to your views, but be careful of circumstantial situations, like the rat race hitting a road bump and everyome complains about it. Lots of people only cared about covid when it knock on their door step and infected the nonbelievers.

I could go on, but have to stop atm, but know that you are not alone and it’s a struggle, like everything else in life, unfortunately.

I want you to know that I feel incredibly seen and validated by this post.

I’ve never had the chance to meet people like you in real life, so I’ve had to hold on to the few instances in which I’ve seen my feelings reflected in media. The one instance I keep coming back to is How To Be Hopeless by Carlos Maza. It’s an absolute masterpiece of a video essay, written from the depths of the personal and existential despair of a man who dedicated his adult life to fighting far-right extremism, and was rewarded with the end of his professional career and the victory of his serial harasser. Its message has become a core part of who I am now, and when I experience the kind of despair you’re describing, I return to it. It’s saved my life before. I cannot recommend it to you strongly enough.

This video is sooo good. Thank you very much for this recommendation.

@aka I don't have any answers but I feel the same way. The oddest thing for me, as a child-free person, is that people who have had kids don't want to leave a better society or a liveable planet for their children and grandchildren.

I honestly think that people with kids DO want a better future for their kids, but they think the kids will sort that on their own.

They spend more of their energy focusing on the kids and supporting them, than to actively plan and execute forward steps..

Of course we do, where on earth did you get that idea from? Or is it like we should do things because we have kids, but you don’t have to because you don’t ?

I sincerely don’t understand where you got that idea from.

Of course we do, where on earth did you get that idea from?

Well, it’s so obvious it’s difficult to understand why you think it’s not ?

They vote and live their life eating the future their kids will inherit and seemingly doing their very best to ensure the biospheres nearly unlivable and society collapses. All people with kids ? no but 80% would be my estimate and its especially bizzare for people with kids.

I find it mostly beyond my ability to grasp but then that’s the case for a plethora of things; vaccince denial, climate science denial, flat earthers, religion etal

https://www.nationalobserver.com/2024/06/14/opinion/science-civilization-collapse-environment-limits

Rees bluntly states, “the human enterprise is effectively subsuming the ecosphere” and “wide-spread societal collapse cannot be averted — collapse is not a problem to be solved, but rather the final stage of a cycle to be endured.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/may/07/un-expert-human-rights-climate-crisis-economy

Outgoing special rapporteur David Boyd says ‘there’s something wrong with our brains that we can’t understand how grave this is’


“In relation to the Bonn IPCC meeting 2022, “Because fossil fuel emissions have been allowed to increase, it’s manifestly the greatest evil ever imaginable” -Dr. Peter Carter (20 June 2022)

The first link is paywalled, in the second I see no referense to people with children being more selfish than those without.

The oddest thing for me, as a child-free person, is that people who have had kids don’t want to leave a better society or a liveable planet for their children and grandchildren.

Yeah, this blows my mind too. A few of my co-workers who have multiple kids each leave their monitors (2 each) fully powered-on, as in displaying images, 24x7x365. You have to go way out of your way to make that happen. The thoughtlessness just drives me insane. I’m child-free too, and I wonder if the fact that these folks are having multiple kids is a clear indicator that they do not think about their impact on the future or the environment so it shouldn’t be a surprise to us that they don’t care.

Oh no, a few hundred kwh per year. I did some back of the napkin math and using quite generous estimates the electricity for that came to roughly the same carbon emissions as 1 tank of gasoline per year. The ‘multiple kids’ part is going to be many, many times more impactful.

I would have expected way less than a tank of gasoline a year, but the point is why go out of your way to completely waste electricity and monitors when you have kids who will have to grow up with climate change?

Gene pool.

I’m just adding the phrase “gene pool” in a reply because I assume the heavy-handed moderation of this platform is why it’s been left out of the discussion so far.

The real impact on the future is terrifying. Gene pool.

This isn’t lemmy.ml, please stop implying that we do unreasonable moderation here when there is absolutely no evidence for that.

Your reply is evidence of that, especially considering before your reply, there was evidence in the form of vote scores and culture, and especially damning evidence in the sidebar’s “rules” section.

Your coworker is reaching out to you in his own way, and you are making his life more bearable than you may know. What seems a little bump in the road may be a mountain to him. But life's a marathon, and he might come around yet.

Whenever I’m struggling with the fact that everything is bullshit, I try to remind myself that there isn’t that much stopping me from living my own life as if I was already living after the revolution, or in utopia, or after the apocalypse, or whatever you want to call it or think it might be. Ultimately, I want to hang out with my dogs, garden, hike, cook, listen to and play music, hang out with friends, run rivers, ski, etc. etc. All achievable now, mostly. Do I also have to do bullshit I don’t want to? Sure. Are a lot of other people living in a crappy way and doing stupid and destructive bullshit? Definitely. But for the most part, if you just do what you can and try to live your life as if you already won the war, it’s pretty ok.

I have been going through a very similar experience to you. The more coworkers I have over the years, the more people I realize are extremely jaded and having a tough time caring at all about the world at large.

This is a pretty complicated issue. I think that means you need a sort of patchwork of paradigms to apply to the issue at the right moment.

Sometimes you need to give yourself a break and let yourself live your life - you only get one, and joy is an essential part of a functioning human, and you must continue to function if you are to continue impacting your world.

Other times you must keep in mind that it is literally completely illogical to say that your actions have no impact, obviously each individual action on it’s own is small but the actions humanity makes are made up of individuals. Change happens one person at a time, and individuals are difference-makers.

Consider professional sports teams where the stars elevate the team to the next level - they cannot do their work by themselves, every member of the team is needed and makes an impact, but the impacts are not all the same. You will see the same dynamic play out in the typical workplace - a relatively small portion of people really make things happen at most workplaces in my experience, but they still need the team to help them get it done. So you should continue to think of your actions as being important/having meaning in my opinion, and you should keep striving to make the world a better place.

Sometimes when there is a situation that frustrates me but that I know I cannot change (or cannot change immediately or in full), it helps to quiet that thing in my head that worries by practicing mindfulness techniques. Personally I find “box breathing” (a style of controlling breathing to regulate heart rate and perhaps lower cortisol) to be most effective. Maybe this or some other method could help to quel your feelings when you know that it is a situation to let go of.

My original post comes out of a place of deep sadness, so I didn’t take much time in proof reading. I should have been more precise in my words on the internet. 😓 I’m sorry for generalizing.

There is nothing wrong with what you said.

I have gotten involved in local, state, and federal politics in my life and I think it does help. I lobbied successfully for gay marriage in Washington State. I have met with reps at the city, county, state, and federal level.

I was on the homeless task force in my city, I wrote and administered a drug-free grant, and I am currently working closely with our Reentry coalition. I am a helping professional for a living which does not solve our many problems, but makes me feel like I am doing my part.

Do a lot of wealthy people make the world a much worse place? The answer is yes. Does that mean we should roll over? Hell no.

It I feel a lot the same. I think its important to remember that this isn’t natural; it takes a lot of work to make a human be like this. It takes the maintenance of a lot of pressures to keep them this comprehensibly awful.

But once the dam breaks…

Well there’s still gonna be a big pit of shit and a shit flood to clean up, but there will not be a massive intractable lake of shit.

I feel exactly the same way! I’ve been struggling to accept this fact for years and years. Really the only thing that’s helped is looking far and wide for like minded people, as few as there are, and chat them up so I don’t feel so alone in my thinking. If ever you want to share your feelings and talk about the ways you’re trying to live a life of integrity and long term thinking, I’d love to chat!

At work, I listen to a coworker frustrated about a simple problem. It would be a simple change to make this person’s job much less painful, but he “just works here”. It’s just such a dumb problem to waste hours of someone’s life on.

This person is aware that the only reward for fixing the problem is more work. He’s still going to work the same hours with the same pay.

Yeah, op sounds like younger me, wanted to help everyone. Still do, but more realism added in. The more you help, the more people take advantage. Not those who need help but those whose jobs it is who should be doing something in the first place.

Help clean the highway medians? They’ll reduce the cleaning budget of the highways and people will litter more. Food banks are stuffed full with donations? Guess we don’t need those welfare programs. Put in an extra hour after work? Great we can expect you to do that forever now.

Every positive thing you do there is someone with money who is waiting to profit off of your free labor. It sucks.

I think most ppl do want to make the world a better place, but most ppl give up very easily, because they have urgent personal matters to deal with as well. Most think often about how they can help fixing the world, but they can only do so much every day, so they are like “It’s a shame I can only use rechargable batteries and plant wild flowers for the bees, but my taxes aren’t gonna file themselves.”

I’m also struggling with this, I feel like I lost a piece of myself and I’ve been grieving a lot of this year with this realization.

I’m there.

I’ve tried to live like compassion is a renewable resource. Well, mine ain’t.

And you don’t have to apologize for generalizing me. I’m sad, tired, and worn out and sick of it.

… like butter that has been scraped over too much bread.

I’m basically stuck in a Bilbo-like ARRRGGGHH! reaching for the ring from Frodo at Rivendale. I’m no longer reaching for the ring but my being is stuck in that look and my heart and soul are dead.

I’m sorry that retracting into myself is the only safe space that I have left.

And I’m sorry.

People don’t and won’t care until more their more immediate and drastic problems will be resolved. I’m happy for you, you’re not too empathetic, you’re simply privileged enough to care about such things. Meanwhile people who have no civil rights see vegans as class traitors, people being bombed would roll their eyes 360° at a mention of fighting light pollution, etc etc.

Activists of the privileged world. Your preaching audience is forever limited to about half of the population more privileged than you. If you want others to care about what you consider problems, SOLVE THEIR PROBLEMS FIRST.

(steps off a soapbox to use it as a makeshift shield)

Sadly a lot of people just didn’t care about anything unless it directly effects them. I feel for ya but remember to take care of yourself, friends and family first. Do the things you love. Oh and build some kind of solar device that saves you thousands. Your friend might listen then.

For you my friend, I recommend the book “climate, psychology, and change” I hold this one close to my heart.

When I was a kid I really thought the leisure society will happen. Now I’m simply counting down the years to death.

If you want to improve things you can’t wait around for a good moment or depend on the involvement of the depoliticized and hopeless to join in. You can just do things. There are other people doing things, too and you can find them. The change you make can inspire some others too, but the disaffected will always be frustrating to see and deal with. There will always be more to do but the thing is to keep trying to move toward the ideal even if it’s just by inches and there’s miles to go, it’s the long haul

There are other people doing things, too and you can find them.

Short guide for how to find those like-minded folk: https://infosec.exchange/@tinker/113589807117870451

have come to a state of learned helplessness

I think it’s the reverse. The problems you talk about are too large and abstract for most people, they’ve never entered their minds. The same way most people never worry about the riemann hypothesis.

They worry about more important things such as the new Taylor Swift album.

@iii @aka i think what people need are the tools to imagine what can change. We specifically created storySeedLibrary.org/ for that :)

Nice site, and nice idea! Bookmarked.

You should make a community here on lemmy for it, I have loads of questions and I bet I’m not the only one!

I get it and I have felt similarly. I get annoyed that people don’t put in the recycling right but then I also look at the recyclying rules and realize the company that does it is pretty much setting it up to fail and are itching to just dump it. Its hard to reduce, reuse, recycle and I look at the folks who can’t return a grocery cart and realize they are not likely trying. My economic situation prevents me from having as energy efficient lifestyle as I would like (being able to purchase or remodel my place on more efficient lines). It sucks but im going out trying to be as least responsible for this mess as I can be.

People are simply shutting down their head. If you can’t see it, it doesn’t exist.

Just do what you can do to make things better for people. It’ll drive you crazy if you’re worrying about what other people are doing. Even crazier than that if you want a reward for doing things right. Do the right thing (even if no one else is) simply because it’s the right thing to do.

Serenity is to accept the things you cannot change, the courage to change the things you can, and the wisdom to know the difference.

You have to remember we aren’t all that far away from cavemen. Some 10,000 years ago we were hunting and gathering. That’s only somewhere between 100 and 200 generations of modern humans. We still have alot of the traits that were important for survival like greed and tribalism. People simply havent had enough time to evolve to this world of abundance, technology, knowledge, laws, and so on.

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However, there are things within people’s control that doesn’t change. At work, I listen to a coworker frustrated about a simple problem. It would be a simple change to make this person’s job much less painful, but he “just works here”. It’s just such a dumb problem to waste hours of someone’s life on.

Does solving that problem threaten their access to food and housing? Capitalism doesn’t care about negotiating the most profitable deals, it cares about maintaining power dynamics, so the company cares more about keeping employees in a servant role than improving their bottom line, so employees are often unable to make their life better without threatening their own livelihood and those of their colleagues.

Capitalism has existed alongside people with good intentions for centuries now. It has many ways of bending kindness into accumulation of power for the rich. Helping people out means people will be less likely to riot when social services get cut, so the rich are more likely to cut social services and lower taxes. So it takes almost no work at all for the system to turn charity into a wealth transfer from the charitable to the rich.

If you want to improve the world, you have to be clever about it. You have to choose things that the rich can’t just leverage into exploitation - things that they would pay to get rid of, not things they would pay to exist. Mutual aid networks, labor unions and other unions, exchange of anarchist ideas and skills, blockades and sabotage, decreasing the number of hours people work at things capitalists would have paid for them to do, etc.

There are people who are cynical to a fault, who have more faith in capitalism’s ability to exploit you than your ability to circumvent undermine it. But realistic cynical skepticism is warranted, and you need to be careful that your good intentions actually produce good outcomes.

Disagree.

Most people want to make the world a better place, we just can’t agree on what a better world would look like, and how to get there.

There’s a lot of people out there, for example, who think that the “right to self determination” is a bad thing because they believe humanity has an intrinsic self-destructive aspect. I disagree, but they firmly believe that a dictatorship is the solution and I’m being unhelpful because I don’t want that.

One of the hardest things I’ve been through in therapy was realizing that my parents really did think they were doing the right thing. They listened to the “experts” at church who told them that in order to protect their kids, they needed to hurt their kids. My mother dropped out of college when she got pregnant, and my stepdad is mentally ill, so neither of them were particularly well educated, and they landed in a cult.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions, after all. People can be horrible and think they’re doing it for the greater good.

Writing “self determination” was inspired from this in-progress book of speculative fiction I’m currently reading called “A Visitor to the Future”

https://www.chronohawk.com/a-visitor-to-the-future/

In the book society has two main rules. The right to self determination, and that people do not have the right to impede on other’s right to self determination. All other rules stem from these two main ones. I find the book very hopeful about the future.

Yeah, my point is that one person’s utopia can be another person’s dystopia. Everybody wants to live in a better place, but nobody agrees on what “better” actually means.

Some people crave structure and order, and don’t want to lose that in favor of increased self-determination. Others see structure and order as constraining and chafing, and see increased self-determination at any cost as freeing.

Quite a lot of people also have a hard time viewing things long-term. IDK where you’re at, but a lot of people live paycheck to paycheck here, and I think they’re stuck in short-term thinking as a form of survival.

Like I grew up poor poor, with shitty parents to boot, where you have so little self-determination that you just straight up learn that making plans only leads to disappointment. Long-term planning is a skill, and when kids grow up with parents that raid the piggy bank for beer money, they learn that planning is useless and spending all your pocket change on candy is better.

one man’s utopia is another’s dystopia
This is true, but there are universal goods that anyone who isn’t antisocial can agree on like a livable climate, everyone having food, shelter, and safety. At least I choose to believe that. I get the point about parents and long-term thinking. That’s a whole thing, they are making it so hard to just live that you’re so busy and tired just doing the daily struggle lots of people don’t have time to think or plan or organize.

This is a remarkable amount of main character syndrome, frankly. It doesn’t read like excess empathy to me, it reads like privilege.

You’re not saving the world. You’ll never be saving the world. Your contribution either way is irrelevant. The big problems that you are frustrated about are about mass incentives, big numbers and geopolitics, not about people coming together for the common good because they care so much. It’s not naïveté, it’s arrogance. You get to vote on the big overall direction and, if you have the time, resources and disposition, to collaborate in activism with millions of others, assuming enough of them agree with you.

The small stuff? The “I could do this marginally better for mine or someone else’s sake”? That’s worth it. That you can do yourself. It still works on the same set of incentives and dynamics, but if it’s something you personally can do to make something marginally better for someone, then… you know… go ahead? It’s just much more valuable to do it in your own life than to get frustrated by someone else who you think should do it. Because, again, you aren’t that important. Nobody is waiting for your command or judgement unless you’re supposed to be giving it for some reason.

And let me be clear, I’m not mad about this. I’m not outraged at your worldview or anything. It’s just that, honestly, in good faith, I think this sense of despair at everybody else refusing to fix things by acting as a hive mind with your same set of values and priorities is not a problem of ethics as much as a problem of narcissism and an inflated sense of one’s own impact, and both that individual and their surroundings are better served by understanding the actual scale of their agency. Because… you know, that way you don’t get discouraged when it comes to doing the small things you can do on the large scale, like voting or protesting, and you don’t get angry about doing the big things you can do in the small scale, like not being an asshole or being too deflated to actually act in the spaces you control.

So no hard feelings but this is a get over yourself moment. In a constructive, positive, agency-filled, collaborative, collective action-driven way.

I don’t really feel like talking about it, but I’m just going to note that I strongly disagree with your opinion in this post. I think it’s natural to experience existential dread over how little our actions matter in the grand scheme of things, and wonder whether our fellow human beings - or ourselves - are worth the effort. I do not think it’s arrogance, privilege or narcissism to feel that way. If someone had suggested that to me back when I was in OP’s position, I would have slipped even deeper into despair. I’m not attacking you, I just want to point out that there is space for different perspectives here.

I’m not attacking you here

I find it really sad that you’re not attacking the person you replied to, when they are quite brutally attacking someone vulnerable.

Also sad that they have a multi-point-positive vote score.

Glad I’m not the only one to at least call them out at all, though.

I’m not attacking the OP.

I’m arguing the sense of despair they feel is a consequence of an inflated sense of their own individuality and relevance.

The problem with being stuck in that spiral is that if you parse being told you’re not in charge of saving the world single-handedly as an attack you’re locking yourself from getting out of that spiral, and if you don’t break out of thinking you’re in charge of saving the world single-handedly you also get stuck in that spiral.

So hey, is it a harsh thing to hear? Probably. But also, if you go on the Internet to ask about it, maybe hearing it isn’t the worst thing that can happen to you as a result. It’s likely better than some pity party about how the world is going to end because everybody is evil, which is, frankly, probably a terrible thing to do to a person coming at you from that perspective.

You’re not saving the world. You’ll never be saving the world. Your contribution either way is irrelevant.

Why are you rage baiting in a place where people can get banned for giving you the kind of reply you deserve?

Rhetorical question, obviously.

See, the irony of this comment is that projecting some entirely made up narrative onto the motivations of other people is exactly the sort of self-destructive self-righteousness that seems to be harming the OP in the first place.

FWIW, I had in no way considered the moderation policy of this “place”, whichever “place” you’re referring to, at all.

But feel free to reach out to me privately to give me whatever reply you think I “deserve”. Which is also some chilling degree of self-righteousness, frankly. You’re not social media Batman doing justice by insulting people, along with the rest of world saving that’s not on you or the OP.

Not reading this. Feel free to start this discussion with me on nostr, where there are no bans, if you have a spine

“A spine” as opposed to… being afraid that you’re mean to me?

I mean, I’ve been around. I think I can picture worse than you can do by talking to me, going by our interaction so far.

Also, the idea of “meet me behind the gym” but with Nostr is just about the most hilarious thing I’ve read on social media. We live in the dumbest dystopia. OP may have been correct for the wrong reasons.

A little bit harsh maybe but oh so truthful IMO for many many people (I don’t know OP BTW, hang in there OP!).

Most people gets programmed for life in their young years; religion, must work hard my whole life, narcissism, … And you can’t really change that it seems. I mean you can’t change them but we can change the system so that the future generations have a more open mind and can chose more for themselves.

Or so I believe.

It’s very cultural, and not necessarily a deliberate impossition, either. I definitely see the whole main character thing more in Americans and some northern Europeans.

You can err on the other side, too. People can feel powerless enough to never take action against their own oppression, ro to the point where they find their own corruption doesn’t matter because everybody does the same thing and their own principles will have no impact.

Both are disproportionate, though. You aren’t in charge of saving the world, but you do have some agency and a responsibility about how you use it. It does take some distance to have some perspective on the battles where you’re supposed to do your part even if you’re not winning them.

I really like andors manifesto as a take on how to have radical hope in a world that individualizes us, is gettjng more and more authoritarian and is soo much against our dreams and hopes.

Your definition of better is not the only definition of better. Lots of people have different beliefs about what would make the world better, getting angry or depressed because people don’t agree with your specific view is childish. Dismissing everyone else as wrong is also childish.

You really need to reevaluate the impact you can actually have and make peace with it’s limits. You aren’t going to change great societal problems by yourself.

Tl;dr: “you will get more conservative with age” 🤦

It is one thing to self-examine one’s own realistic agency in this world, but another thing to fall into a self-defeating mindset like that.

It has nothing to do with being conservative. It’s about finding contentment in what you can control and not letting your mental health be destroyed by others.

My specific view is the one where I get to live. Lots of people have different beliefs and want me to die.

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